This is, modestly speaking, what we think the debate should look.
ANDREW HACKER IS INTERVIEWED BY THE ATLANTIC.COM
There’s an lovely interview by Jennie Rothenberg Gritz on The Atlantic.com with Andrew Hacker and about “Higher Education?” After the story, there’s a lot of interesting commentary from the Atlantic’s readers. Very smart, very thoughtful–and most importantly, very, very civil.
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{ 9 comments… read them below or add one }
I just read your interview in The Atlantic and was struck by how many of your points came up in a discussion I had recently with my son, a 2005 graduate of the University of the South (Sewanee).
My advice to him when he was conducting his college search ten years ago was to not worry about preparing for a career – his undergraduate years should be a time to wallow in the subjects and ideas that he found most interesting, and if he didn’t change his major at least once, then I would question whether he really was getting the most from his college experience. While he stuck with his intended English major, he did flirt briefly with a change to Geology (bless the professor who got him excited about science!) and ended up with a second major in Philosophy.
Our conversation was about how valuable the abilities to think critically and to write clearly and persuasively are in the workplace, and how graduates of non-liberal arts programs tend to be less able to adapt to changes in the business world and less able to shift from one role to another.
I will note that my son has been gainfully employed since graduating. (I am, by the way, a graduate of a small liberal arts college and majored in Biology with a minor in Russian Studies. I changed my major twice.)
Sounds like he's had a great Mom, who understood he needed time to develop himself into the person he needed to be.
Interesting about good science profs, when you can find them–all it taks is someone who can make it not boring. We're for excitement in education. People have forgotten that classes can be electric.
Hello! I had just tried to sent an e-mail but I think it got bounced back as spam. So, posting here:
My name is Sam Jackson and I am a current senior at Yale majoring in Political Science. I read about your upcoming book in The Atlantic, and though I have not seen any of the actual book, I wanted to thank you for writing it, as it brings further into the public discourse a very important topic. I am especially fond of the harsh words you appear to have for the collegiate sports-industrial-complex.
While I like to think that I have made reasonably good use of my time at Yale, I certainly see many of my classmates there and at peer institutions who fail to actualize the potential afforded them on campus. That is true whether it is Yale or Harvard or some less gold-plated institution, but the opportunities available are in some senses much easier to grasp at one of the former. I am certainly bothered by the stultifying effects of such elite imprimatur, and like to think that being the beneficiary of such privilege gives me credibility to critique it. I know enough of the real, raw statistics to criticize the notion of the Ivy League as a magical ticket to success, but have enough first hand experience to report that the right credentials appropriately leveraged can afford unique advantages.
I don't know that I would want to work at Old Navy just to wax existential (I have my fair share of introspective reflection in my internships at Google, I think) but I fundamentally agree with the value of a liberal arts focus. My younger sister is just starting college this year (Carleton College) and I hope that in that context she will get great teaching and opportunities for personal growth and development.
Separate from the wasted potential and missed opportunities are the institutional failures which lead so many to graduate with nothing more than a piece of paper, huge amount of debt, and prodigious skill at binge drinking. I do not know what would fix the education system in America today, nor that such strategies would be executed upon convincingly if they are precisely enunciated in your book. But I know that education is extremely important for students of today and tomorrow and with them, our society.
For your thought-provoking contributions to this discourse, thank you. I look forward to reading the book.
Sam Jackson
P.S. Do you have any plans to come to New Haven / Yale to promote + discuss the book? I am sure that it would be a well-attended event, and I would be delighted to propose a formal invitation to a Yale college master's tea for you to discuss the themes contained within if you are interested. A master's tea is a chance to sit down in one of Yale's residential colleges, have tea and cookies, and talk with students. I can dash off a note to the speakers bureau linked to from your website but just wanted to see if there was interest or pre-made arrangement first.
Dear Sam Jackson:
Thanks for your kind and very thoughtful note.
We don't think with a system as large and complex that post-secondary education, any one reform will fix things. Think about how complicated proposals for reform of the health care system were; there are many similarities.
As you'll see in the book, we're tossing out some ideas that folks ought to think about and see if they fit to their own situation. Also : some general principles that ought be aimed for.
The big thing is that we want to get people thinking and talking.
We agree with you about schools like Carleton–small liberal arts colleges are the way to go, if you can afford them and get in. But our guiding principle: no debt trumps prestige. So we're impressed with many of the honors colleges within the state schools. Many are as good; most are cheaper.
I think I may be up at Yale some time in the next six weeks doing some interviews for my Science Times feature. Do talk with Jodi Solomon's people because they are handling our non-media appearances. We've put that into their hands.
Also, my email for book related stuff is Claudreif@Verizon.net.
Best, C.
I just read your interview with "The Atlantic." Your point of getting a degree in liberal arts and returning to school to earn a degree in engineering in two years rather than four is incorrect. I am doing just this. After earning my first degree in criminal justice, I am now pursuing a degree in engineering. This process will take me 3.5 years. This is with no developmental courses needed, as I tested out of those requirements.
Hello Dave: Please explain further. Best, Claudia Dreifus
2010/07/22 at 10:13 am
I had the privilege of reading an early copy of the book and was hugely impressed. It is very well organized and compellingly written, bold and informative throughout. And the research, research, research — there are all kinds of studies cited alongside personal interviews and correspondence, and the authors have done a tremendous job sorting through what must have amounted to years and years of research, and presenting it in an interesting way.
The book reads very quickly. I highly recommend it. It not only explains the problems in higher education in an informative and readable way, but it actually offers some solutions, too.
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I just read the interview in the Atlantic and I it is a relief to see
that I'm not the only one who is concerned and writing about the same
things you are. On my blog, collegereadywriting.blogspot.com I've
written about the hypocrisy of academic freedom, research and tenure.
I am ordering the book right now and I can't wait to read it. I'm
teaching an advanced writing course in the fall and we're doing a
section on education. This book and your comments could not have come
at a better time for me.
Good luck. I hope it sells lots of copies and everyone who care about
higher ed reads it.
Sincerely,
Lee Elaine Skallerup, PhD